HomeMy WebLinkAboutbocc.min.spec.05242005 PITKIN COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WORK SESSION AGENDA
Plaza One Conference Room
TUESDAY, MAY 24, 2005
(Dorothea Farris not present.)
11:00 AM- 1:00 PM Joint meeting with Town of Snowmass Village, Debbie Quinn (Lv CH Plaza at 10:40)
12:45-1PM SPECIAL MEETiNG
Executive Session
ADJOURN SPECIAL MEETiNG
Plaza One Conference Room
1:30 PM Memos of Interest
Future Agendas/Agenda Requests
BOCC Open Discussion
2:30
3:00
Preparation for Meeting with USFS, Debbie Quinn
Preparation for Meeting with Town of Basalt, Debbie Quinn
CITIZEN BOARD INTERVIEW
Mirte Mallory - P&Z
3:15 BREAK
3:30
V/4:00
One-Time Savings, Tom Oken, Debe Nelson
SPECIAL MEETING
Joint Meeting with P&Z
Policy Discussion on Water Requirements and Retroactivity of the Land Use Code, Ellen
Sassano, Cindy Houben
5:00 PM ADJOURN SPECIAL MEETING
APPROVED JUNE 08, 2005
MINUTES
PITKIN COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
SPECIAL MEETING
MAY 24, 2005
(Joint meetinq with P&Z Commission)
NOTE: For all staff memorandums and associated documents, including
additional exhibits submitted, refer to the BOCC PACKET FOR MAY 24,
2005
CALL TO ORDER: Chairperson Kay-Clapper called the special meeting of the
Board of County Commissioners to order at 4:0'1 PM.
BOCC COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Commissioners Patti Kay-
Clapper, Jack Hatfield, Mick Ireland and Michael Owsley
BOCC COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioner Dorothea Farris
was attending another meeting
P&Z COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Commissioners Michael Augello,
Marcella Larsen, Jay Murphy and John Howard
ALSO PRESENT: John Ely, County Attorney; Hilary Smith, County Manager;
Cindy Houben, Director of Community Development; Lance Clarke, Assistant
Director of Community Development
DISCUSSION AND STAFF DIRECTION FOR CLARION ASSOCIATES ON
LAND USE CODE REVISION TOPICS - STAFF PLANNER - ELLEN
SASSANO
Ellen Sassano proceeded with her presentation on the Land Use Code Revision
topics as outlined in her and Cindy Houben's memorandum to the BOCC dated
May 24, 2005. Said memorandum includes current County Land Use Code
regulations, prior County practices and current County practices. Also included
are Clarion Associates and the Technical Advisory Committee recommendations.
Alternative options and pros and cons are also shown to facilitate discussion.
ISSUE I - WHEN TO REQUIRE PROOF OF WATER RIGHTS AS PART OF
SUBDIVISION REVIEW
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 1 SPECIAL JOINT MEETING MAY 24, 2005
ISSUE 2 - SHOULD ALL PROPERTIES SEEKING LAND USE
DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL OUTSIDE OF THE SUBDIVISION PROCESS BE
REQUIRED TO SHOW ADJUDICATED RIGHTS, A WELL PERMIT OR
EXEMPT WELL STATUS AT SUBMISSION OF THE LAND USE
APPLICATION RATHER THAN AT BUILDING PERMIT APPLICATION
ISSUE 3 -APPLICATION OF REVISED LAND USE CODE PROVISIONS
Currently, Subdivision Review is the only Land Use Review requiring proof of
water rights. The policy's intent is clear however, it makes no reference to
WHEN the proof must be submitted.
Discussion began on Issue 1.
To clarify terms for Chairperson Kay-Clapper, Ms. Sassano related the
processes used by the County for Subdivision Review. She said that they were
conceptual submission, which is the first stage; detailed submission is next and
then there is final plat submission. And, she added, sometimes detailed and final
plats are combined.
The State statute that discusses water referenced in her memorandum
references only to requiring proof of water at preliminary plan. In many
jurisdictions, she continued, preliminary plan is preceded by what's called sketch
plan, which is similar to our conceptual plan.
Discussion ensued on which subdivision process should require proof of
adjudicated water rights. The main question was whether it should be required at
conceptual or at detailed or detailed/final plat. These discussions also included
looking at the applicant providing proof at the earlier stage and yet not getting
land use approval at the final stage.
Some believed that the conceptual process allowed more flexibility and a certain
amount of entering negotiations. Commissioner Owsley said that once you
harden the line with the acquisition of water rights before the event there is no
more room for negotiation.
The development community has complained about the County's current practice
of requiring adjudicated rights at conceptual when they would prefer it later in the
subdivision process.
Personal planner, Glenn Horn remarked that he believes the concept needs
some tweaking. He believes more people will avoid the subdivision review and
go to 35-acre land divisions instead.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 2 SPECIAL JOINT MEETING MAY 24, 2005
Referring to the State statute stated above, Mr. Ely informed the boards that if
they wanted to get around that rule then they could invent a process that calls
itself something other than preliminary approval. He said that the larger question
to him is whether the bulk of the development activity is in other properties and
what would the board want to do about them. Because, he continued, there is no
application or State statute on those types of properties and we don't do anything
now because there is no treatment of those.
Discussion developed on a new process name. Some suggestions were sketch
plan, preliminary plan and conceptual/preliminary, for example.
Ms. Sassano said that Ms. Houben had come up with a hybrid in the form of the
following procedure. If you are concerned about complying with the straight
language of the State statute you could say, at the moment, we don't have any
mapping of which areas of the County specifically have potential water issues in
terms of supply. But, she hopes to have that mapping in the near future.
Without that mapping, Ms. Sassano continued, there could be language in the
Code that read if, at conceptual submission, someone comes in with property
that is known to have had historic water depletion issues then at conceptual
under those circumstances perhaps we could require adjudicated rights.
Chairperson Kay-Clapper warned the board and staff that she did not want water
to become another 1041 issue as she thinks it could set the board up for takings
issues.
Commissioner Ireland said that he thinks Ms. Houben's suggestion is
agreeable. He said that he thinks the following is the only way to do it.
2
Create the WRIS map concept so that we have some things
that we know definitely and that you've got to have the water
before you get any form of approval.
Use that preliminary re-naming idea so that we are in
compliance with the State statute. And, if someone has
conceptual approval and they're not in the red zone, then it is
taken with the understanding that we may approve this in
water court and that any further approvals will be contingent
upon wet water, etc.
The P&Z Commission appeared to be in agreement in the belief that we need a
true conceptual phase in order to have the ability to sit down with the applicant
and developer and work through that phase and then move on to "preliminary" or
whatever we will call it.
Ms. Sassano said that what she is hearing the boards say, at least for
subdivisions, is that almost everyone would like to have something akin to
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 3 SPECIAL JOINT MEETING MAY 24, 2005
conceptual or sketch plan review where no water is required at that first
stage so that the developer and the County can come up with an
acceptable plan on where they are going, but with no requirement for
decreed water rights at that time.
Mr. Horn commented on other Counties that have sketch and preliminary phases
rather than conceptual and detailed. He said that the sketch process,
comparable to our conceptual, is a lot more "sketchy". One of the things that
make our conceptual a bigger deal is because of the association with Growth
Management. He said that there aren't going to be that many Growth
Management projects in the future. But, he said, one of the problems of having
that dialogue of what should be occurring on a property at conceptual is that a
developer has so much invested in a Growth Management application that it
reduces the dialogue because they're not allowed to change things.
Mr. Horn said that something they did at the City level which he found interesting
was to do the Growth Management end of it at detailed, at the second stage
rather than conceptual. The scoring part occurs later on. Then the Growth
Management part is a little more perfunctory.
Ms. Houben still had concerns. She said that she doesn't think that we're at the
point where we could have a map, but we could have language that says if, in
fact, there's any reason that we have concerns at conceptual then we can require
more documentation at that point. And, if we miss a few we could get them at
detailed.
Chairperson Kay-Clapper added that we could still do that but everybody else
brings them in at detailed.
Discussion began on Issue 2.
Chairperson Kay-Clapper asked how the boards were going to apply this to land
outside the subdivision process. Currently, she said, adjudicated water rights are
done at building permit.
Part of the discussion was on giving approval to a single family home and then
the owners finding they haven't enough adequate water when they go to building
permit.
This becomes a problem for us as a community, added Ms. Houben, because it
often causes the creation of Special Districts that cost the community at large a
lot of money.
Mr. Horn suggested that at building permit the applicant should show that they
drilled the well, got the water and did a 24-hour pump test. Perhaps this could be
codified as well, he added.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 4 SPECIAL JOINT MEETING MAY 24, 2005
Mr. Ely said that in requiring that information for codification could be tough. In
getting that information prior to building permit, he added, we will develop our
own data base and from there, perhaps, go the next step.
Regarding wet water, the consensus was to require a 24-hour pump test to
be submitted at building permit and use the collected data to codify this
process for lands within subdivision/PUDS and for those outside the
subdivision process. In other words, every building permit application will
have to have this pump test done.
Chairperson Kay-Clapper had a question on page 2 of the memorandum under
Section 3-70-100 A. of the current Code which states, adequate water provisions:
land uses shall meet the requirements for adequate provisions to meet water
needs as established by the County Environmental Health Department.
She raised a question about issues brought up with Eddie Van Walraven of the
Aspen Fire Department and with irrigation issues. She asked if Environmental
Health incorporates those issues or just domestic uses.
Ms. Houben said that's the whole part of us looking at how many gallons a
minute are pumped out of a well. If a site plan has extensive landscaping, then
staff knows they're going to have to require more than just domestic use.
Chairperson Kay-Clapper wants to bring the other issues spoken of above
into the Environmental Health requirements.
Discussion began on Issue 3.
Chairperson Kay-Clapper asked how we define an application complete.
Lance Clarke responded by saying that there are specific submission standards
in the Code and when those are met the application is complete.
The next discussion ensued on vested rights.
Commissioner Hatfield asked if the new Code should reflect on vested rights or
request for building permits deemed complete. To him the new Code should not
impact vested rights or applications that are in. Then the second part is the rules
of general applicability which are health, safety and welfare that apply to the
entire County.
Ms. Houben said that from what she understands the board is not changing its
policy. If someone has submitted a land use application that is complete or a
building permit that is accepted, we are not trying to yank those out and make
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 5 SPECIAL JOINT MEETING MAY 24, 2005
changes to them. She informed the board that she has quite a few questions
from the public on this issue.
After continued discussion, it was decided to table this issue of application
for a future meeting to get better clarification.
ADJOURNMENT:
Commissioner Owsley moved to adjourn the special meeting at 5:07 PM.
Commissioner Hatfield seconded the motion. Motion passed 4 to 0 with
Commissioner Farris not present.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 6 SPECIAL JOINT MEETING MAY 24, 2005
Respectfully submitted,
Clerk to the Board of County Commissioners
Patti Kay-Clappe~'
Chairperson of the Board of County Commissioners
g\bocc\minutes~2005\min,spec.05242005
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 7 SPECIAL JOINT MEETING MAY 24, 2005