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HomeMy WebLinkAboutbocc.min.reg.04191970tai ~.C1 u..l 5l:u~~i~ly t_i11 .7 uia ~i.. ~.i , 4Lic L.J ...~i. .,. ~...~._ ____- .. - not an area of their concern. ~.__ PROCEEDINGS OF 'I`II MEET1IdG GF TI-IL B04I;D OF COUNTY COi~TMISSI01VEhS FOR PITKIN COUlVTY, COLORADO, 1-JELD ViA CH 19, 1970, AT 11:00 A. Ni. , IN TITS COMNISSIOti~RS' ROOM, COURTHOUSE, ASPEN, COLORADO. Present were: Convnissioners: J. S. Baxtc-r, Chairman T. J, Sardy, Clyde Vagneur I, County Attorney: Roberi,• Delaney ~' County Administrator: Terry G. McAnnar~y %; Counsel for the Petitioners and for the Developer, !; Aspen International: Maxwell Aley I, Counsel for Harald Pabst, ,~ a downstream landowner: Joseph Edwards Dr. Baxter: Then, you`ll be presenting the Pet;~tion for the Wildcat Group? vrc. A1ey: Yes, sir. Dr. Baxter: Fire away. Mr. Delaney: Jay. Dr. Baxter: Bob, go ahead. I`11 appreciate your advice. Mr. Delaney: There is no one from the Planning Commission here, I wonder if we should find out if they are corning? Or what? Dr. Baxter: All right. Terry, if you will do that please. We'll hold things in abeyance until we can find out. Enlighten us on the statute if you can, Bob, while we are checking on this. Mr. Delaney: This is a public hearing, of course, called pursuant to the. requirements of Article 18, Chapter 89, C.R.S. 1963, entitled "Special Districts Contol Act", which requires that on formation of any water or sanitation district, there be a service plan filed with the County C1e-rk and t'ren a hearing scheduled by the Board of County Commissioners and testimony or evidence taken by the Board, and thereafter, a report `filed, or resolution adopted rather, filets with the District Court, and the record in essence is transmitted to the District Court with the ~I'`1 recommendations of the Planning Commission. As a part of that record, if I may, I'll go through Appendix A, which is basically a description and some information; the letter of transmittal of February 6, 1970, Da~~~rsori, Nagel, Sherman and Howard. There is also a Notice of lublic Hearing prepared on behalf of the County ar~d published in The Aspen limes in its issues of February 26, March 1+ and March 7, 1970. Nir. ~Lley: Mr. Delaney, I talked with them, there is a mistake on the bottom of that notice, and the publication dates in March actually were IVarch 5, and lurch 12., and they will correct that on their final copy with which they make an Affidavit. lair. Delaney: There were three publications? Nor. A1ey: Yes, sir, i`Qr. Delaney: February 26th, the 5th, of March and the 12th. Mr. Aley: Yes. In addition, there should be as part of the filing, a letter from Kirchner, Moore & Company dated February 5, 1970, which is by way of a Supplement to Section ~- of the Service Plan. Mr. Delaney: Yes, that is in the file. Additionally, an extra copy of the Service Plan was provided, which was delivered to the Pitkin County -- -. _ -,- Planning and Zoning Commission for their study. I think that comprises ~ basically the record, do you agree on that? - Mr. Aley: Yes sir. D-r. Baxter: What did you find out from Planning and Zoning? N1r. 1~TcAnnany: Lnere' 11 be a member here shortly. Dr. Baxter: All right. Should we hold this in abeyance until that representative arrives? Mr. ~ Delaney: I believe in view of the fact that they have had the report ~ ~ and have been considering it and will be here very shortly, that the matter could proceed. ~~ Dr. Baxter: A11 right, we can go ahead. I think as openers we'll ask ~Ir. Al.ey to make his presentation of the Sanitation District. `- Nlr. Aley: Maxwell A1ey, a member of the firm of Helmick, Evans and Conover , representing the Petitioners for Approval of the Service Plan in connec- ~~ tion with the establishment of the proposed District. Also counsel for '". Inc aeveloper, xspcn Ln~;ernati~_oilal rroper~;ies, Lnc. ~l~ne .uis~cric-c is proposed to be formed in order to service the Aspen Wildcat project, which is being developed by Aspen International Properties, which is a Colorado corporation. The dcsiLn of the district is closely co-ordinated and tied to Aspen International's Master Plan. In fact, it could be deemed an essential part thereof. I think that the Commissioners are already familiar with the plan,the Master Plan, in some generality. dust by way of introduction, let me describe the service plan. It covers the proposed development of the 8,300 acre Wildcat tract. It covers the proposed water system, the water supply, the estimated ultimate population, financing, the proposed sewage system, engineering of both the water and sewage system, and finally, financing feasibility and operation of the plan, or of the district. What I am going to do is put on the Engineer,who is pryncipally responsible for the preparation of the Service Plan and let him testify with regard thereto, and answer any questions the Commissioners may have and then I will follow with a witness from the firm of Kirchner, Moore and Company, a municipal bondhouse, which has been engaged to handle the underwriting of the bonds. Next, I would like to put on Mr. McLaughlin. M~r. Aley: Ron, would you state your name, place of residence and the business ,you are engaged in. Mr. McLaug]alirz: Ronald C. McL'auz,1~l:Lin, corzsu'1'l;iz1U en~;:i.neer, x•cside :zn Dcrzve:r•, ~, '~ Colorado. Tam a partner in the firm of Wright - McLaughlin, Engineers, which has approximately thirty permanent employees, fifteen of those are -registered engineers and deal specifically in the fields of water engineering, water, sewage and drainage. N1r. Aley: Did your firm prepare the service plan for the proposed district? Mr. McLaughlin: Yes sir. Mr. Aley: Have you been engaged in any similar engineering project in the Aspen or Pitkin County area? N1r. McLaughlin: Yes, we ;prepared the, in the Aspen area, we ~,_prepared the service plan for the formation of the Snowrnass Water and Sanitation District, _ for the Aspen Metropolitan Sanitation District and also did some preliminary 1 engineering work for the Aspen Sanitation District. ~---- Mr. A1ey: Did, you, yourself, supervise the preparation of this plan? . ~.y Mr. McLaughlin: Yes. M~. Aley: Would you please explain in broad form to the Commissioners the basic terms and aspects of the plan? Mr. 1~TcLaughlin: I might spread out a couple of maps here. The first section of the Report deals with the plan basically designed by Donald William McDonald. From his basic planning, we developed design criteria as tc water requirements, sewage to be collected, also water requirements for aesthetic purposes, fish and recreational needs, so that the water plan is not limited to just domestic needs, but to the total needs of the project. The sewer, of course, is basically just domestic problems. From the design criteria, we developed ~in preliminary form, the plan for the Christensen Panorama Water Supply Project, for which water source the water rights are all owned by Aspen International Properties. Comm. Vagneur: Where does that. water come from? Snowmass? 1 _. ` Snowmass. The basic water supply at this time will be from Snowmass Cree~kj}• and its tributaries. I guess that's ultimate too, although we have a "t temporary supply. I might show you briefly the Water Resources Nlap of the whole Snowmass Area and the Service Plan contains a listing of all the Ditches and Water Rig hts that are affected or affect the Aspen Wildcat Base and Service Point, from that we developed a water supply, a preliminary design of water supply system, which would divert tirater from Snowmass Creek in this area, in Section 8~, we have one water treatment plant and would distribute water throughout the entire district. Initially, it is planned to obtain treated water from the existing Snowmass Water and Sanitation •h District system. We plan to do that as long as that system has excess capacity, at which time, with provisions for a year's notice, we would build this water treatment plant and transmission system. Basically, the system would be"in accordance with State Health Department requirements. It is to be an urban type design system in that full fire protection would be furnished throughout. It's not a rural type water system with 1otir capacity. It's all high capacity system that would justify fire protection rates somewhere in the vicinity of Aspen. As you can see, there axe located different pressure zones in different areas. Comn. Vagneur: You are going to pipe it right from the source? Mr. NlcLaughlin: Yes sir. Take it from Snowmass Creek, treat it at one point and then.•pi~.~ it to the various areas. Most of it will have to be pumped.' into the tanks. As a part of the Christensen Panorama Water Project, we have certain old direct diversion rights that would be utilized, also we propose some storage. One storage lake which will be used by the water system is known here as Bear bake, actually it is filed as the Powell- McKenzie Reservoir. We have another, Wildcat Lake, which is under construc- tion, which is primarily for recreation needs and would only serve as emergency replacement water with regard to the system. Comm. Vagneur: The source of that water is where? Mr. McLaughlin: It`s Wildcat, it`s a ditch that comes from Sncwmass Creek, comes around this Ridge and has irrigated these fields in the past. I believe the estimate for the ultimate water faciliti~s9 including water rights valuation, is approximately ~+.8 million dollars. That`s at ultimate capacity. Mr. A1ey: I might add, Mr. Vagneur, that in this Service Plan, there is some very detailed information about the water rights and the sources and what they are going to supply, etc., if you want to refer to some of those thins. NIr. McLaughlin: As to sewage, sanitary sewage, all the development is to be served by a community-type collection system. There are no areas planned for septic tanks, i~'•s all a community system, again of a typical urban design. We propose one sewage treatment plant, to be located at the downstream edge of the property, onthe right bank of Snowmass Creek, there is a flat area"there as the bridge that enters that area comes across and that is the proposed location for the plant. The plant will be built in stages. It will be a complete secondary sewage treatment plant. We have done the preliminary work on it and started filings on it. I can, if you are interested, show you a picture of the Aspen Metro Plant and .this weather conditions and so the plants will be similar. In ~the initial -: ~~ phases, the point of discharge will be Snowmass Creek. I believe it is in the fourth or fifth phase, we propose to build a polishing o-r maturation pond, which would be located on a tributary of Wildcat Creek ar~d from then on., it would be used for either irrigating the golf course or would be allowed to flow down through Wildcat Creek into Snowmass Creek. Dr. Baxter: Mr. Peter Guy, Chairman of the Planning and Zoning Commission, has joined our group and is sitting over here. I just wanted that in the record. Its. McLaughlin: The Aspen Wildcat Plant will be similar to the Asper Metro Plant. I`ll just pass that around the table. Dr. Baxter: Is this also similar in its degree of treatment of sewage, Ron? i~Lc. McLaughlin: Yes sir. Dr. Baxter: You use the term of secondary treatment? vrr. McLaughlin: Well, secondary and tertiary, actually the classification of the streams are the same. The streams are classified by the Water Pollution Control Commission qualitywise for domestic water supply and cold water fishery, which are the highest quality classifications in Colorado. The effluent from this plant must be of such a quality that it preserves the classification of the stream.' In other words, they regulate scream quality now so that the effluent out of this plant must be of such a quality that the resulting stream quality is suitable for cold water fishery, trout, and a domestic water supply, so it's a high quality water and I`m sure that for Aspen and Wildcat that`s the quality they want. I think the estimatc~lcost of the sewage system is approximately ~+.2 million dollars and when we looked at the overall area, we felt that later if it was desired,that this sewage treatment plant should be able to serve all of the area on Snowmass Creek above Pabst Reservoir, the upper water of Pabst Reservoir. We had some comment that this seemed to be a logical overall plan from a County planning standpoint and that the flow that might be collected below the plant should be pumped to the plant and treated there,rathe-r than treated at another plant which would be above Pabst. I think that is the basic outline. _ We`ve got a lot of details in the report, T`d be glad to go through them. Dr. Baxter: One thing I would like to have registered is, What is the, as is being presented today, ultimate capacity of this plant in. its final stage? Mr. McLaughlin: We sort of used the water rights available during the minimum years or minimum yield year and maximum use year, we developeda limiting criteria that there was only adequate water available fo-r up to what we call 39,500 population equivalent. In this case, we assigned population equivalents to the -restaurants, laundries, so it is not necessarily exact people. So the li systems are designed to take anything up to that ultimate of 3,500. ~~ ~- Comm. Vagneur: How many feet of water do youhave adjudicated? Mr. McLaughlin: Well, if you go down to the junior rights, it is probably up in the very large numbers. Of the senior.... Comm. Vagneur: You wouldn`t use junior rights for domestic water, would you? Mr. McLaughlin: Only the eaxlier junior rights, some with. storage. The 'pasic # `senior rights, I think total ~+.8 c.f.s, the basic core senior rig:nts of storage ana otner tnings, just like Yabst Reservoir; but the basic core rights total u.8 c.f.s., all of which would be committed to the potable ~~ water system. Mr. A1ey: What about the phase development, Ron? Mr. McLaughlin: Well, the total values I have given here are, of course, for the ultimate development. We estimated originally that the, everything is to be built inphases. In other words, they are projecting a cluster-type plan that, the starting of the clus'cex• would be at Wildcat, and none of this in here, of course, is to be built 71 think maybe for three or four years. Actually, the numbers in the report are the projected phases, we used them in years, but at this point, they have been slowred down, so that I think we had a total estimate 1.2 million dollars or 1.3 million dollars would be the first phase cost for both water and sewer, and it would actually be less than that now, because the projected development has been cut from that originally given and used in the Service Plan, so the actual first Phase will be smaller than what we had, but the Report outlines twelve phases, whichwe assumed at that tune would be twelve years. At this time, if it ever gets that high, evidently it will be more than twelve ycax•s. In other words, wo would develop one cluster as one phase and add on other clusters and other phases as the de~reloprnent demands require. Mr. A1ey: What about the economics of tap fees? Mr. McLaughlin: The economic feasibility of a system like this is based uponthe unit cost per tap. It all irons down to the unit cost per tap. If the unit cost per tap are astronomical, the project is infeasible. If the unit cost per tap are reasonable, then the project is reasonable. We have a ,` curve in there indicating that the cost ,per tap for the first phase is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1250 to 1300, actually this cost will be less now, using the Snowmass Water system. This curves down as the project grows Ithink in the neighborhood of $860 to $870 per tap. These costs per tap are for both water and sewer, which indicates that the cluster type developrr~ent plan is very economical. We did not base our unit rate calculations on the cost at the end of the project or the ultimate project, but we based our rate calculations I think upon a development about a third of the project way. In other words, we didn`t say that the rates would be charged at the initial highrate, nor at the low end rate, but somewhere in between which represents about a third of the development projected, so at a 13,000 population equivalent. At this stake then, our rates contained in thermport are the rates that would be required to make the project feasible. The tap fees set, we have a connection charge set I believe at $550 per tap, which is to be paidfor by the developer ,and the tap fee to be paid for by the builder at the time of connection of 300 per tap, an estimate tax income of five mills, a water charge of 7.00 per month, a sewer service charge of 5.00 per month, and these rates rr~ake the project self-sustaining at this third development level. Is" we only progress to the first development level, the rates would be slightly higher. vi-r. A1ey: What is the present assessed valuation of this property? Nir. McLaughlin: The present assessment is ~~50,350.00. There are no improvements at the time of this assessment. Dr. Baxter: That's the Pitkin County Assessment, on this bare. land?:. ~~, - Mr. l~tcLaughliri: Yes. ___ tiir. 111ey: l+That is the ultimate valuation? Nis. McLaughlin: Kith Donald McDonald's Plan, at the ultimate, if all this happened, then the estimated ultimate assessed valuation, assuming the same thirty percent if the law at that time is still thirty per cent, wr~uld be approximately eighty million dollars, that is land and improvements. Nis. Aley: Is there any service in this area available for this project? Mr. l~lcLaughlin: No, there is no community type service in this area. dlr. Aley: Is there any proposed service for this area of"rer than as is proposed by this District? Mr. tcLaughlin: No, to my knowledge there are no other plans or proposals to serve this area with any other type municipal systems or any other systems. Mr. Aley: That`s all z have. Dr. Baxter: You have no furtn.er presentation? Mr. A1ey: Yes, I have another witness, Dr. Baxter. Dr. Baxter: Joe, do you have a question to ask of Ron? Joe Edwards: Yes, on behalf of Mr. Harald Pabst, who is a downstream land owner from where the effluent outlet would be, we would like to ask Mr. McLaughlin a few questions going into the specifics generally of the sewer facility. Dr. Baxter: I think that now that he is here, now is the time to ask him the 1 questions. Go ahead Joe. Mr. Edwards: Ron, what is your estimate cif the choloform bacteria count that -~' this plant will produce? Mr. McLaughlin: Essentially the plant doesn't produce any, it removes. Essentially the effluent will have a zero choloform count. I think the State allowances are a little higher than that, but we always shoot for zero. Mr. Edwards: Is this one of those package plants that is automatically operated, is that what you have in mind? Mr. McLaughlin: .Absolutely not. It is similar to the Aspen Metro Plant. It is a permanent type, concrete structure, activated sludge plant, fully enclosed so that weather does not disrupt ope-r.ation and protected against power outages up to three days, so that we will not have any loss of sewage to the stream within a three-day power outage. Mr. Edwards: Do you chlorinate this effluent automatically or is there a Full time operator who varies the chlorination in accordance with the load demand -__ or is there-_a _rneterng_device?~_ __---------_----------- Mr. McLaughlin: I would say that we could do it automatically, but T would say that we would not do it automatically. The facility runs all the time whether the operator is there or not. We found it snore econornin.al to feed chlorine at the maximum demand rate, not automatically and reliably, than '; ~' it is to try to set the chlorine feed at an optimum rate and save chlorine, which you spend so much money for automatic equipment that can fail, that it is just better to set the thing high and leave it there. yir. Edwards So you set it at its maximum peak necessitated? Mr. McLaughlin: Right. Mr. Edwards: So this would be like early morning and late afternoon periods, its sufficient to get rid of all the bacteria at those times and then you /„ ti - (~/ M:c. McLaughlin: Yes. /D NIr. Edwards: Do youfeel $hat there is any dar_ger there might be a formation of cyanogen chloride or nitrogen trichlo-ride which would kyll off the fish, as a result of running that chloride more than you need to during the low demand hours? ' R4r. McLaughlin: No sir. Mr. Edwards: What is your estimate of the historical choloform bacteria count in the Snowmass strceamY Nir. McLaughlin: Of existent? We've never run a test. I don't think we have. I can say from observation and ex~~e-rience that Snowrnass Creek is of excellent quality. I have observed the quality of it at the point of the water treatment plant, where we propose to take the water out, unless we have soine particular areas where some of the ranchers are possibly discharging leaching fields into the stream which I am not aware of, or this campground area, basically it is a very high quality stream. Mr. Edwards: Your plan will be zero bacteria count? Ms. McLaughlin: Zero choloform count. NLr. Edwards: You said your current water rights were 4.8, what is the minimum needs for this development ~rojdcted'? Nir. McLaughlin: For domestic use? The minimum need initially would p-robaly be in the neighborhood of a quarter c.f.s. In the ultimate, we designed for the maximum need, which is projected to be I think 6.7 c.f.s., the ma~.imum @, demand rate. Mr. Edwards: And you have 11-. 8? Air. McLaughlin: No sir, ~+.8 is the core or the very early water rights, which cannotbe called out by anybody, but Nre have other water ruts which are not dependable, if you just try to use them, they have to be developed into a water project to make them feasible, and then when you add all these rights together, plus the facilities, plus the core water rights, we have enough total suloply for the domestic, at the peakuse, demand, which I think the peak is 6.7, plus there will be enough left for fis:n loads, plus recreational use, golf course irrigation and irrigation of tracts. Of course, we don't say golf course water has to be available 365 days a year as compared to potable water. Mr. Edwards: What is the level of nitrate and phosphate removal from this plant? i~Zr. McLaughlin: At this point, the initial plant, the nitrate-phosphateremoval is probably in the range of thirty to fifty per cent. Shoup. nitrate- phosphate removals ever: become a problem in the stream and it is conceivable, then we would have to add nitrate-phosphate removal equipment, however, the State at this time doesn't have any requirements for it and I don't know as there is any need for it, but there could develop a need and we have room left on the plant site. We have acquired a plant site, or will acquire a plant site, large enough as we did Aspen Metro, to add nitrate-p~~osphate removal facilities, should this ever become a legal requirement or a practical requirement. Mr. Edwards: Isn't it a fact that the nitrate-phosphates are what cause the algae blooms, the green growth in the stream? I, Mr. McLaughlin: Yes, partially. It depends on what level you have. Some algae whether you re~.lize it or not is desirable. There is an interesting project //~/ in Idaho where they are trying to fertilize a lake since they can't get any (// fish in it, it's too pure, but this has to be a balance and too much nitrate and too much phosphate combined with other things can create algoblooms or algodensiti~s which are too high for the stream. I~ir. Edwards: If your effluent were to dump into Pabst Reservoir, would that become a problem? Mr. McLaughlin: It possibly could, doe, depending upon the maturation pond. ti~T_r~~t the maturation pond is for is to provide removals of and by~,rays of bacteria and viruses which ire don't even test for. It also provides for algo-groz~rths in the pond, tiahich. can be removed before it is discharged into the stream if desired. In other words, we may grow these algae in the maturation pond and remove them and thereby -remove the nutrients before it ever reaches Snowmass Creek. blr. Edwards: At the present time we have a secondary and not a tertiary plant, is that it? Mr. McLaughlin: It will be tertiary, but there are several brands of tertiary plants. It is not tertiary to the extent that it will have ponds. In other wo~.ls, tertiary can mean lots of things. It will be a tertiary plant, but not to the extent of nutrient removal. NLr. Edwards: What will be the temperature of this effluent, will this range the stream temperature? P~Zr. McLaughlin: No, not appreciably. I'd like for it to be higher than it will be. Cold water arld cold temperatures are a real problem in winter. High temperatures are no problems. Cold temperatures give us trouble. If you raise the temperature, it doesn't create any problems here. Ins. Edwards: You don't thinkraising the temperature would create a pro'plem with respect to the life of trout which need 68 degrees or less? Mr. McLaughlin; No. . Ns. Edwards: What is the average temperature of the sewage? NLr, hcLaughlin: It's all a function of the incoming water. The average temperature of sewage in Aspen might be thirty five degrees, in Denver fifty degrees. The people don't have so much to do with it as the temperature of the water as it comes in. Mr. Edwards: Have you run ariy temperature tests on sewage in the Aspen area? Mr. McLaughlin: Yes, we did take temperature measurements in Aspen in the Aspen San District. I don't really think it is a significant design criteria. The significant design. criteria we have at this point with these streams that we have, are essentially solids removal and oxygen demand. With the ratios we have of people to streams, these a-re the legal requirements and practical requirements, as well as bacterial. . ____.,_. , _ Mr. Ed~~,rards : What BOD removal do you anticipate? N1r. McLaughlin: We anticipate during the low flows of the initial phases ~; around ~asnety to ninety-five. After the raa~l;uration ponds are in, we are talking initial BOD removals of ninety-f ive to one hundred. I~ir. Edwards: Do you have any provisions for storm sewers or is the -runoff to be into the natural tributary streams? M.r.~McLaughlin: I am sure there is some design for storm sewers. .ihey have had n some interest in storrn sewers, we do that kind of work. We haven't done any ~~j preliminary design for storm drainage yet, and it`s basically notes part /(/ of the service plan. NLr. Edwards: At the present time, you don`t know.if there will be any provision for run-off, such as oil and gas wastes, through the sewer plant. dir. McLaughlin: I know it won"t be irl the sanitary system. the District's design we have done, will not permit any storm drains into the sanitary system. There will haveto be other provisions for it. Mr. Edwards: have the developers requested you to makea storm sewer plan? Mr. McLaughlin: No, we have discussed it briefly as to a rriatter of maintaining water flow in the lakes, mostly from the, it=s a little premature at this time. Mr. Edwards: Ron, I have noticed that Brush Creeli has been muddy ever since Snowmass began its development and it doesn't loolti lilLe it4s going to clear up. What is the problem., is this because of the shaletype soil? Snowmass apparently has no provision for settling ponds in their construction, as far as you know, do these developers have any such plans? ' Nlr. McLaughlin: This is what we were talking about the onlywork we have done presedimentation this far is to discuss p~~~~~~~~sr~-~ ponds for a storm system. Brush Creek was probably always muddy even before they got here, because it is due to the shale-clay soil. That is the reason we couldn't get ground water, because it is too tight. It is not due in any way to the sewage treatment plant, but if you have seen the effluent of the sewage tre atrnent plant, you will and green see that it is clear and where it flows into, is much dirtier and gray. Nlr. Edwards: Is there any plan to put the effluent out on the land ©'oher than the golf course, as irrigation? As I understand it, putting it out on~the land completely would eliminate your phosphate-nitrate problem. T:is•. ~~.icLaughlin: No, notnecessarily. In fact, crop irrigation, especially where a ranch is fertilized can put farmore phosphates and nitrates into the stream. So irrigation may or may not reducenutrients depending upon the soil that is there, the amount of fertilization, Mx•. Ea'~~rards: In this development, youare not having fertilizer used are you? P•'Ix•. McLaughlin: I think that the sewa.geeffluent for irrigation in a sterile soil is deficient and that we would probably have a leach out of e~-r= nutrients when we put the effluent on the golf course. They might even have to add rriore nutrients in the effluent, but you would probablyhave a leach out of nutrients with irrigation. We don`t have any plans other than the golf course. r. Mr. Edwards: Do you feel the effluent from the sewage plant will have any effect on the environmental characteristics or the ecolog~ecal systems down stream? Is this 39,000 people sewage plant going to make any change inour dovrnstream ecological system or have you made any evaluation of that'? Mr. McLaughlin: You know, honestly, any time you have a sewage treatment plant and run sewage effluent regardless of how treated it does have effect on the stream and nobody can say it doesn't. If you limit it to a significant effect, I think not. We have the technology providing we have the dollars to treat sewage 'Lo ra.1_mos~~ any dc4irec we desire 'Lo and it's orr=1_y a mai;tc>.r of dollars and desire, so that T think that what we propose will x•emove any .~.7tr~v...~ ~nr~,'1 .~.+~ nol o~f'f'o n-4- -I-r~, ~ n~ rcrii f i nn n-F r7 o (r-nc» hf~1- 'f-.~horr~ 7.Ti 1 ~ A~T.TA ST'C ~I'1P .some effect; It's never going to be like it was fifth yearsago. ..~Q3 lair. Edwards: 'T'hen your statement that if you have the money, you have the dollars, could you treat sewage to the extent that it would not have an ecological effect? Nlr. McLaughlin: We propose to treat it to where it ~o the extent where it will not have a significant ecological effect. ivir. Edwards: T mean a change? N,r. I~2cLaughlin: That is I suppose a moot question, because i~.~r. Edwarrds: T realize it is not a requirement of State law. NLr. McLaughlin: It is not a requirement of State law. Itts not a practical requirement and it assumes continued perfect action of people and facilities, I which you can`t assume. Nir. Edwards: It would be theoretically possi~.y.:? " Nlr. ~'icLaughlin: lt's theoretically possible, yes. Ns. Edwards: In your settling pond discussions that you said you had, did you make considerations of the land covwr decreasing the rapid runoff? Mr. McLaughlin: This is for the settling ponds on the storm sewers? Ns. Edwards: Yes. Mr. McLaughlin: No, we are not that far, because we just haven`t done that much work on the storm sewers. The Water and Sanitation District just will not get involved with the storm sewers. Mr. Edwards: Who will heat the storm sewers, not the water district? Ntr. McLaughlin: I think that is a developer responsibility whether he nas to do it, how far the County exercises review control, I don't know, but it is a developer responsibility. Mr. Edwards: The nutrient treatment program that you were outlining that might be a third element to be added, what would that consist of? In the event that nitrates and phosphates become a problem, what type of tertiary treatment would you have to remove that? Mr. McLaughlin: This is the type of ~s~~x thing that PGTPCA is having a lot of demonstration grants, a lot of development grants, so five years from now, the thing might be different than it is now. At the present time, we have one plant proposed, which is basically a linse precipitation plant. You use the existing facilities, but you have to have lime precipitation to take out the phosphates. At this point, this appears to be the rriost practical method of removing the phosphates. Also, a very good method nearly proven, or mostly proven, is the removal of algae from ponds specifically designed to grow algae, because the algae grow as a result of the nutrients, so algae removal could be, instead of trying to take . the nutrients out chemically, take them out biologically. I would say at this point, either of those methods could be chosen and possibly both. Nir. Edwards: If you use the first method, would you draw off water and put it into the system after it had been settled? Mr. McLaughlin: The first method involves lime additions would take place in clarifiers; the phosphates settle and are removed in sludge, which would be disposed of, ' Mr. Edwards: .Are there any stable phosphates remaining unsettled? TR,•. TJ(r.T~,,.,~1-,l i n (lh ,rae -i'I-. i e t~!1't". ;i hi~nr'~rc~rl -nr~r~~~ni- r.v~n~~n~r ~1-L,~-f- t ~ ~.,1,,. ....,, iill,Jllt, U 1 w,~~ UV 411, 1~1~O,.LC1 ~UU WiJ,:l1, l,V .C~Cc1,.L1Cl; t~11U,1, yUU UV L1Vl~ L11;1.1~,~;~CA..L1_L~)~ /~C~( _.._.- - -- }'r`~,ni; -F,o .r.eraov~~ a,1.1. ~f;i;~, _.,,,~~,~~~}~~rrf;~--~. /"-l i~~:~. Edwards : Assumin those stable phosphates got into the e:['flucnt duirlped into the straam, what is their ran{;c for hurting fish, twenty-~'ivc miles downstream? Mr. McLaughlin: For hurting fish? I don`t think, the range is nothing. Grand Lal~e is an excellent example. Up until five years the concentration of phosphates from the town of Grand Lake, which essentially dumps r.ai-r sewage into Grand Lake and Sraadow Mountain Lake, weren`t objectionable at all. Now we have, as more people move in there and more tune, we have a lot of raw sewage still going in there, We have objectionable algae grow`hh, but it is sti11 some of the best fishing in the area. It hasr~'t had any adverse effects on the fish, it`s mostly adverse effects on the fishermen. 1r. Edwards: It causes an odor you mean? N1r. McLaughlin: Not a sewage odor at all, sometimes when the algae die, you get an algae odor, or you get a fish odor. T~I:r. Edwards : Do you have a full time operator proposed? Njr, McLaughlin: I don`t think so. Eventually, if they ever attain the ultirrlate capacity, it would require four operators. Normally, we don`t think 2~+-hour operation is necessary providing we have the space and capacity for a long term detention basis, such as a pond. If you do not have any pond, such as the Aspen San Plan'L, then this continual operation becomes more imperative, but these ponds are great levelers and really the best triing that happens to sewage treatment. In this case we did not have room at the plant, but we proposed to pump the sewage to a spot three-quarters of a mile away to a large maturation pond, which provides a hundred percent safety factor, relative to other plants. NLr. Edwards: Your statement that there would be no substantial change to the ecological system, whatever change occured as a result of this sewage, would this change be a permanent change, irreversible? N1r, McLaughlin: Oh no, there is no irreversible change, because we are not dealing with stagnant waters. We have large volumes of water even through Pabst Reservoir, so there is na irreversible change. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I don`t believe we have any further questions. :Gr. L,axter: .Are there any further questions from any of .the people here at the public hearing that they would like to address to 1~1Y'. McLaughlin at this tune. ~~ _ _ _ _ ., . Milk Ger~az: T`d like to ask a question. You mentioned about dumping your effluent in Wildcat Creek, what would you do with the existing ditches that cross there, go over them, under? McLaughlin: From Wildcat Creek? The pond is on a little tributary rigrit near Wildcat Creek and it would, we would pipe under ditches so a.s not to affect t12em. Dr. Baxter: Any other questions from the Commissioners. I think we will continue this hearing as we have a schedule to go on later on today. For now, will you call your second witness, I don`t want to hurry anybody, but we want everything to go as efficiently as possible. Mr. A1ey: Our second witness is Mr. Don Diones.. Will you state your na:rne, address and business association, please.' Mr. Diones: Don Diones, Kirchner, Moore and Company, an investment banking /D ~~ firm of Denver. Mr. Aley: What is your position with Kirchner, Moore, Mr. Diones? Mr. Diones: I am a Vice President of the Company in charge of our Underwriters Department. I have been with Kirchner, Moore approximately seven years. Mr. Aley: What kind of underwriting does Kirchner, Moore do? Mr. Dionesw We underwrite municipal bonds which are used to finance capital projects :C'or cit_i_es, counties, schools, water and sc.nita.t: on districts, and political entities. Mr. Aley: Have you done any underwriting for such districts in Pitkin County? Mr. Diones: Yes, we have: We've been involved in the Aspen A~etro Sanitation District, Aspen Sanitation District, Snowmass Water and Sanitatior_ District, and a couple of others, as well as some City financing. Mr. A1ey: Have you had any part, M_r. Diones, in preparation of this Service Plan for the proposed Aspen Wildcat Water and Sanitation District? Mr. Diones: I have been involved in it to the extent of working with Robert Kirchner, who is chairman of our firm, and working with hirn on the financial aspects of the service plan. hir. A1ey: You did work on this plan? i Mr. Diones: Yes. ° s.u ...~..~~ ~-_.._~,,,,~~..NSr. ley. Would you please explain briefly the financial feasibility of this project? Mr. Diones: I will.It is the intention proposed by the District to generate _ funds to pay for water and sewer improvements of the district through the issuance of general obligation bonds of the district, which will be ret~.red up to a twenty year period, they can mature over that length of time. These bonds are issued after the district has been organized of course, and approved by the eligible votor-electors of the district, and the bonds are at the present time, statute provides cannot be issued at an interest rate in excess of eight per cent, however, the state statute is under change. The legislation has been passed and the' Governor is expected to sign this legislation removing the interest rate ceiling. The bonds ase paid from water and~or sewer service charges, from tap fees and from taxes that may be levied upon the property ~~rithin the proposed district. These charges or combinations of these charges will be, and should be, sufficient not only to pay for the operation and maintenance expense of the district, but also for payment of the indebtedness. The largest source of income is generally from water service charges, which Mr. McLaughlin has estimated to be 7.00 per unit and ~>5.00 for sewage service charges. This is expected to be one of the largest sources of continual income for repaying this indebtedness. The financing will be in conjunction with the development,~,~~ In other words, if Phase One develops, the financing for the water and sewer lines will be related that particular development. Dr. Baxter: May I interrupt and ask a question? To clarify in everyone's l~ I mind, are we considering simply a sanitation district or are we considering a water and sanitation district? /a~p Mr. A1ey: A water and sanitation district. What is your opinion about the feasibility of this project? Mr. Diones: Our opinion, the firm's opinioiz, is that this project is feasible frorri a bond standpoint, and as the development occurs, the feasibility is snore enhanced, it becomes more attractive. dir. A1ey: Anybody else have any oyuestions? Dr. B;zxter: T have two questions. These bonds are backed from the revenue derived from water and scwa~;e tap fees, etc. tiu. Diones: That`s right, tap fees, monthly or quarterly service charges and taxes which could be_levied against the property. Dr. Baxter: That`s the next question. What is the limit of taxation or under what taxation limitations would this joint district be placed? I3ow many mill levies could be levied on this ~c-roperty and on the valuation of the property? Mr. Diones: By State statute, there are -rlo limits on this. Dr. Baxter: None whatsoever? Mx. Diones: That's right. As a practical matter, the rni11 levy should not, if you want to have an attractive development, ten mills is considered as an outermost limit. It is envisioned that five mills will suffice on this. Comm. Sandy: Is anyone else's property in this District, other than Wildcats. ' NIr. Diones: To my knowledge, there is no one else`s property in this District. M.r. Aley: May I answer that, Mr. Sandy? The Christensens have reserved out somesmall tracts along the west boundary and there are also some BLM1 tracts prescntJ_y owned by the United Sl;a~i;e s. T thinJc tl~cre are four BLM tracts which we are trying to acquire, of course. Dr. Baxter: Is there further presentation? Mr. Aley: I have no further .qu:estions, so I think we ought to hear from the Planning and Zoning Commission on their recommendations. Dr. Baxter: We will get to that in due course, are there questions frcra the people here directed toward the financial aspects of this? Do you at the present time have any further witnesses or anything you would life entered into the record? Mr. Aley• The on'ry thing I would like to say in conclusion is a Petitioners` prayer to the Board of County Commissioners to approve the resolution for the adoption or for the approval of the Service Plan, so that we can go forward with this project. We have presented to the County Attorney a draft form of Resolution along these lines. Dr. Baxter: Are there any further questions from anybody at all? I have one further question. Iias there been any thought given or anticipation of utilization of this disposal plant and this water system by other surrounding areas, but areas not directly involved in the Wildcat development and not owned by them? nas there been any thought as to for instance outside contractual arrangements for others to use these facilities? Mir. Aley: I411 let Mr. McLaughlin answer that if I may. a,r__ ~,r..r,......t.~ ., .,.. v,, ,. ~,~ ~I-~.,,.,,;- ;-ti,~ ,-.err,,; v,omoni- 'n-P a -ini n~i-_ r"yi c-I-'.ri ri-. a~- i-.1'ii c t:~ YYIP _ E ~3 we propose that the District accept sewage from the development area '"/~~ which might occur between the sewage treatment plant and the high water line of Pabst Reservoir that would be tribui:~dry to Snowmass Creek. Also between the Campground Area and the main body of the District, there is a tract there of in the neighborhood of 1700 acres which could be developed. We propose that this area should the people wish, oecome serviced by both the water and sewage facilities. This would be the logical planning. Dr. Baxter: Approximately how big an area would the total areas that could be serviced by this plant, how big an area are we talking about? Mr. Mc"Laughlin: If we are talking about the total area that is susceptible to be, it would be in the neighborhood of 10,000 acres. Of course, even with the Aspen Wildcat development, only a very small percentage of that will have development on it. It all has potential, but they .don`t plan to develop it, so that actual area served by tYle system, will be proba'o1y less than 1,000. Dr. Baxter: Do you have any estimates, Ron, on the total amount of effluent flow as compared to some estimate of the stream flow? Mr. I~icLaughlin: Unfortunately,Snowmass Creek hasn`t been measured for very long. We have the readings for two years and our knowledge of other streams in the area, we have estimated. I thinly the minimum flow in Snowmass Creels and this is a real dry year, sae project at the point of about 122 c. f . s. 1~?~ow, the average flows are considerably more than that. In designing the maturation pond, I felt that we should limit winter flows at this point of 122 c.f.s to about three second feet, so that we could have the maximum of a twenty- five per cent ratio. I actually could do it less and more than that ti~rith the water quality, but the normal minimum flows during the summer are in a range of twenty to fo~zty c.f.s. We have normal minimum peals flows in the range of 100 to 170 c.f.s. At the peak ultimate development, the total sevrage flow average available would be in the -range of 5 to 6 c.f,s. less t~lhatever 9_s put on the golf course. So you see the range of flow that we have. Dr. Baxter: Are there any further questions from anybody at the hearing? I~Ix. Delaney: What is the lift from the treatment plant to the polishing pond? 1~ir. McLaughlin: I'd have to say that I don't know. I could 1o~k it up. It is something like fifty to a hundred feet. I can check it on the topography maps if you want. It's in that range, maybe a little higher, We do propose to have a large storage 'oasin at the plant, which would be empty, so that if the pumps that take the treated effluent to the maturation pond should be out of power, that the flow would then go into the relatively small pond located at the plant, so that should ~e have pump failures, we would have a gravity pond available for three or four days. Dr. Baxter: Joe. Mr. Edwards: Ron, my reading of your report gave me the feeling that there was about 75 per cent of it seemed to be a rationalization or a manipulation by which you were attempting to get enough water. Do you feel there is a severe water problem in this development of is that an inaccurate reading• f I made of this report? ;; . ;~ Mr. McLaughlin: I don't know your thoughts, but the basic. thought is accurate,,: in other words a large part of this report Ura;s involved and some of the ~~ work, a large part was trying to determine the available water because it is quite complex, we have a series of old water rights, a series of rnediurn old or junior water rights, we have the inter-relationships of a proposed reservoir and proposed projects of the oil shale industry. It is a very complex thing, so that it took a lot of effort and a lot of time to really pin down what we thought were the ~lr~ low f1o~r or critical years of availability of water. Then from there you have to have judgment as to ho~a much you need for fish, how much for recreation and admittedly there is some judgmeilz in there. I don't think we have any problems that can`t be solved at the 39,500 equipalent population number, Yahich we think is an ultimate number, because we think from our study, that we certainly can't guarantee water beyond that. I'm not saying you can't put more people, but vre don`t think you should. (l - --- ------ ----_- b1r. Edwards: ~Ias any study actually been made on what the downstream ecological effects will be? Do you have any criteria on what those changes will bc? Mr. McLaughlin: You know in the field of engineering, that is one of ou-r basic problems. So specifics say as to that particular stream below, I say as a matter of experience and study, this is a a major problem and I riigYit say there won't be any significant result, yet there is a relationship to the general overall knowledge of the field. Basically, we know that we have a good quality stream of a certain flow. 'Irhese things we have to know, from that standpoint the study is specific. As to the quantity flow of that stream, very important. As to the quantity of sewage flew, very important. As to the amount of phosphate removal, col~forrn removal, very important. But specifically as to what the actual flora-fauna will be in that .stream we can`t be specific. Dr. Baxter: Any further questions? Because of the scope and rna;nitude of this project, I am going to recess this hearing and we will attem~ot to set a time for reconvening or starting the hearing again. This if for sevea:al reasons, we would like a transcript given to our Planning and Zoning people as we do not have a recommendation from them. I feel it unreasonable to ask them for a decision before they have time to go over tl.~is. T~Sr. A1ey: We did furnish a copy of ~l;he1'1an to the P a.nd Z people. ', Dr. Baxter: Yes, that is in the record and I believe this project demands full perusal and consideration. If there are no objections to this; we will make that at 11:00 A. M., April 6, in these rocros. Are there any objections to this time or this date? This meeting is recessed. STATE OF COLORADO ) ss. C C~l7NTY OF PITKIN ) T, Ramona I.Markalunas, a shorthand reporter and a I~rotary Public in and for the County of Pitkin, State of Colorado, do hereby certify that the foregoing is a full, true and complete transcript of the proceedings before tine Board of County Commissioners for Pitkin County, Colorado, in, the Commissioners' Room at the Courthouse, Aspen, Colorado, had Ifarch 19, / ~ • 7 non ~k 'i't •n(1 ~ M