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HomeMy WebLinkAboutboccminspec12112007(2)LUCPITKIN COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WORK SESSION AGENDA Plaza One Meeting Room MONDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2007 10:30 AM Harvey Site Visit (Depart Plaza3 at 9:30 am) TUESDAY, DECEMBER 11, 2007 11:00 AM JOINT MEETING WITH OPEN SPACE Commissioner Clapper Not Present -Lunch meeting with NWCCOG 12:30 PM EXECUTIVE SESSION 1:00 PM SPECIAL MEETING 1sT Reading and Set for Public Hearing on December 19tH 1.200$ Budget Resolutions: Adoption, Appropriation, Setting County Mill Levies, Debe Nelson 2. Resolution Setting Initial Airport Fees and Charges for 2008, Tom Oken, Dave Ulane ADJOURN SPECIAL MEETING 1:30 NWCCOG Annual Update, Liz Mullen, Gary Severson 2:00 Memos of Interest Future Agendas/Agenda Requests/Monthly Calendar BOCC Open Discussion 3:30 BREAK 4:00 SPECIAL MEETING WITH P&Z Land Use Code Amendments, Ellen Sassano 6:00 PM ADJOURN THURSDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2007 I-70 Coalition Meeting THURSDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2007 NWCCOG and Rural Resort Region Meeting in Minturn FRIDAY, DECEMBER 14, 2007 STAC Meeting- CDOT Headquarters Auditorium in Denver APPROVED JANUARY 9, 2008 MINUTES PITKIN COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SPECIAL JOINT MEETING (2) WITH PITKIN COUNTY PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION DECEMBER 11, 2007 NOTE: For all staff memorandums and associated documents, including additional exhibits submitted to the record, refer to the BOCC PACKET FOR DECEMBER 11, 2007 (2). CALL TO ORDER: Chairman Michael M. Owsley called the Board of County Commissioners to order at 4:07 PM due to a recording machine problem. COUNTY COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Michael M. Owsley, Patti Kay- Clapper, Dorothea Farris, Jack Hatfield and Rachel Richards COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Joe Krabacher (Acting Chair), John Howard, Michael Augello and Mirte Mallory BOCC Commissioner Hatfield moved to open the special joint meeting with P&Z at 4:07 PM. Commissioner Farris seconded the motion. Motion passed 5 to 0. P&Z Commissioner Augello moved to open the special joint meeting with the BOCC at 4:09 PM. Acting Chairman Krabacher seconded the motion. Motion passed 4 to 0. ADDITIONAL STAFF PRESENT: County Attorney, John Ely, Community Development Director, Cindy Houben and Assistant Community Development Director, Lance Clarke MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO SPOKE: Gideon Kaufman, Marty Johnson, Jan Derrington and Charles Cunniffe. FIRST READING ON ORDINANCE ADOPTING AN AMENDMENT TO SECTION 5-20-70, MEASUREMENT OF FLOOR AREA AND TO SECTION 11, BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 1 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 DEFINITIONS OF THE PITKIN COUNTY LAND USE CODE -MOTION TO APPROVE ISSUES 1, 2, AND 3 ONLY, AS AMENDED AND STAFF DIRECTED, Ellen Sassano, Senior Long Range Planner began the presentation to the board on the Ordinance before them. She also explained that the BOCC and P&Z will be meeting from 4 to 6 PM and then the P&Z will hold their regular meeting at 6:00 PM. Ms. Sassano will cover discussion item number 2 on the agenda entitled River & Stream Corridors and Wetlands. Lance Clarke will cover discussion item number 3 on non-conforming structures. Joanna Schaffner, County Zoning Officer and Tony Fusaro, County Chief Building Official will walk the board through the various issues on this Ordinance. The issues themselves are explained in detail in today's packet material. FIRST READING ON ORDINANCE ADOPTING AN AMENDMENT TO SECTION 5-20-70, MEASUREMENT OF FLOOR AREA AND TO SECTION 11, DEFINITIONS OF THE PITKIN COUNTY LAND USE CODE -MOTION TO APPROVE ISSUE #1, WITH DIRECTION TO STAFF; APPROVE ISSUE #2, AS AMENDED AND WITH DIRECTION TO STAFF; MOTION TO APPROVE ISSUE #3; MOTION TO TABLE ISSUE #4 (VERTICAL CRAWL SPACE)TO A DATE NOT YET DETERMINED TO ALLOW STAFF AND THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN EXPRESSED AND BRING IT BACK TO P&Z FOR RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOCC SECTION 5-20-70 MEASUREMENT OF FLOOR AREA (for mechanical areas, crawl spaces and below grade space): ISSUE #1 - BOCC HAS ASKED STAFF TO INVESTIGATE WHETHER A MINIMUM ALLOWANCE COULD BE MADE -MOTION TO APPROVE ISSUE #1, WITH DIRECTION TO STAFF STAFF RECOMMENDATION -Staff recommends that building permit applicants for new construction choose between two options. (Explained in further detail in the packet material) / A minimum of 2% of the total floor area OR a minimum of 50 sf, whichever is greater, be a dedicated mechanical room of at least 7 feet in height. OR / Applicant must provide a complete plan showing placement of all proposed systems and compliance with latest adopted Building Codes. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 2 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 The inspectors are having a hard time reaching and/or servicing mechanical equipment in homes. This amendment will have a mechanical space designed into a building before it ever gets off the ground. There seemed to be confusion among some of the board members so Ms. Schaffner tried to clarify. She added that an applicant could be less than 2% if they provided a plan. There is no maximum size to comply with, only a minimum. She said that it is not 2% IN ADDITION TO the 5750. It's 2% OF the 5750. She also added that this was for new construction. REQUEST FROM THE PUBLIC -Gideon Kaufman wants to be sure that staff puts something in that says that this will not make existing houses non- conforming structures. (First name not heard) Johnson said that requiring a mechanical plan before hand is not really that bad of an idea. A contractor would like to see that anyway. Ms. Schaffner informed the board of three letters she received. One was from Pacific Sheet Metal, one from Marvin Brothers Plumbing and one from David Lambert Construction. They were all in favor of the minimum of 2%. However, all three were requesting that it be an exemption from floor area which staff does not support. P&Z RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOCC -Commissioner Howard moved to recommend to the BOCC that they approve staff s recommendation, as written, on Issue #1 for mechanical rooms. Commissioner Mallory seconded the motion. Further discussion developed before the BOCC made their motion. The vote on the P&Z recommendation was called by Acting Chair Krabacher. Motion passed 4 to 0. BOCC MOT10N -Commissioner Hatfield moved to concur with the Planning and Zoning recommendation. Commissioner Richards seconded the motion. Jan Derrington said that there are many design built mechanical contractors in the valley who retain design systems for homes. Many of them have engineers on their staff. Why would it have to be an engineer, necessarily, to show adequate mechanical plans? DIRECTION TO STAFF -Tony Fusaro will qualify Mr. Derrington's question when looking at this for final reading. Commissioner Krabacher informed the board that the language in the actual Code Amendment reads, "which room shall contain mechanical, electrical and BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 3 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 plumbing equipment, but no laundry or other household uses or appliances". He is not sure that language works. DIRECTION TO STAFF -For 2nd reading look at tweaking that language to show the word "area" rather than "room", keeping in compliance with other standard Codes Commissioner Farris asked why she couldn't have laundry appliances in a room with afl the mechanical items in that same 50 sf because the house is so small. Lance Clarke responded by saying she would have to demonstrate that with a mechanical plan. Basically, he said, even if you have a very small house, 2% or 50 sf (10' by 5'). If you don't need that for all of your mechanical space, then you would have to show on your building permit that you don't need all the room for mechanical space and then you don't have to have 50 sf. Chairman Owsley called the question. Motion passed 5 to 0. John Ely said that Commissioner Augello and Acting Chair Krabacher made the comment that led this discussion to tweak the language to show "area" rather than "room. This was done after P&Z had their motion and vote on their recommendation. He asked if this was, in fact, a recommendation from the P&Z. Commissioner Howard supports the word "room" rather than "area". Commissioner Mallory said that she would support whatever was in concert with the other Codes in terms of closed space for safety reason. Commissioner Augello is acceptable to this modification for the word "area". P&Z RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOCC -Acting Chair Krabacher moves that P&Z adopt the recommendation along the lines of what Michael (Augello) said and what the Commissioners approved. Commissioner Mallory seconded the motion. Motion passed 4 to 0. ISSUE #2 -THE P&Z AND BOCC ALSO CONSIDERED WHETHER CRAWL SPACES AND BELOW GRADE AREAS SHOULD BE PERMITTED BEYOND THE FOOTPRINT OF THE BUILDING -MOTION TO APPROVE ISSUE #2. AS AMENDED AND WITH DIRECTION TO STAFF STAFF RECOMMENDATION -Because excessive excavation of a site is not desired, staff believes that crawl spaces should be limited to areas beneath the footprint of the lowest level. Crawl spaces outside of the footprint, including beneath decks, patios, terraces, and yards would be prohibited. This would also keep an applicant from crawl spacing the entire building envelope. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 4 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 On the other hand, staff does not believe that Below Grade areas should suffer the same limitation. Allowing such areas to exceed the footprint of the house enables an applicant to utilize the Below Grade exemption from Floor Area without having to redevelop the existing house. Ms. Schaffner proceeded with her presentation on Issue #2 as outlined in the staff memorandum. Discussion developed among the Commissioners and staff. Commissioner Richards asked how this provision might relate to well fields and septic leach fields and, in the case of smaller subdivisions, neighbors' leach fields. Ms. Schaffner said that setback requirements for septic systems and wells are regulated by the Environmental Health Department and would be shown on the permit application. If there was a conflict they would catch that, she concluded. DIRECTION TO STAFF -Commissioner Richards would like staff to check with Rose Ann Sullivan in the Environmental Health Department before 2"d reading to verify her concerns with neighboring well fields and septic leach fields. It was brought to the boards' attention that on page 6 of staff's memo under definition (d) Crawl Spaces it reads, Crawl Space means an area below the first usable floor of a building or portion of a building, excluding decks, patios and terraces. The question on this from Acting Chair Krabacher was this. How are people building crawl spaces under decks, patios and terraces right now? Ms. Sassano apologized for any confusion and said that this portion of the definition was new language and should have been italicized and underlined. It is underlined in the Ordinance. REQUEST FROM THE PUBLIC -Gideon Kaufman wanted clarification on the following question. When there is a Jacuzzi outside and there's a vault underground by the Jacuzzi so they don't have to have everything above. He wants to make sure that this doesn't preclude that. Discussion developed on this clarification request. Ms. Schaffner responded by saying that they are either connected to the house such that they can be Below Grade exempt or if they are less than 5'6" it is a crawl space. A mechanical vault would count if it were bigger than 5'6" in height. Charles Cunniffe gave some examples of expanding Below Grade. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 5 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 P&Z discussed this issue among their board members. P&Z RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOCC -Commissioner Howard moved to recommend to the BOCC that they support staff's recommendation on Crawl Space. Discussion ensued on this issue of crawl space. Acting P&Z Chair Krabacher said that he understands staff's concern about somebody crawl spacing a whole building envelope and the potential that someone would convert that into habitable space at some point in the future. He said that he thinks there ought to be some form of release valve for addressing things like mechanical vaults, pool structures, and equipment rooms that are actually used for some purpose other than storage or just to have some empty space. P&Z AMENDMENT TO RECOMMENDATION MOTION -Acting P&Z Chair Krabacher asked if Commissioner Howard would accept an amendment to his motion as a DIRECTION TO STAFF to look at some way to carve out whatever mechanical vaults, pool structures or equipment rooms and so on that support whatever improvements are being made on the property that could be outside of the footprint. (Commissioner Howard adds "and that the mechanical vault does not exceed 5'6"and is not considered crawl space") Commissioner Howard accepts this amendment to his motion. Commissioner Mallory seconds his motion, as amended. Motion, with direction to staff, passed 4 to 0. BOCC Chairman Owsley said that the P&Z motion amounts to not having crawl spaces outside of the building footprint, except in cases where they're detached as a mechanical space for a pool or hot tub. DIRECTION TO STAFF -Commissioner Hatfield asked if we were specific to hot tubs and pools. After a few additional items were suggested such as water features, he directed staff to come up with language to deal with that mechanical issue. BOCC MOTION -Commissioner Hatfield moved to support the P&Z recommendation. Commissioner Richards seconded the motion. Commissioner Farris asked Lance Clarke to clarify exactly what the BOCC will be voting on. Mr. Clarke said that this motion would do is say that crawl spaces, which are essentially mechanical spaces not exceeding 5'6" in height, cannot exceed the BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 6 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 footprint of the building (the foundation walls of the building) EXCEPT FOR required mechanical vaults that are outside for outside types of improvements such as pools, hot tubs, sprinkler systems, etc. But, we are also not changing, he continued, anything with regard to sub-grade basement, useable livable spaces. Those still can exceed the footprint of the building. We did not make a change to that. Chairman Owsley called the question. Motion passed 5 to 0. ISSUE #3 -LAST JULY. THE BOCC AND P&Z REVIEWED A STAFF PROPOSED CODE AMENDMENT TO PROHIBIT SKYLIGHTS AND BAY WINDOWS IN "BELOW GRADE" AREAS. THE BOCC DISCUSSED THE ISSUE AND DELAYED ACTION UNTIL THE AFOREMENTIONED "FOOTPRINT" ISSUES COULD BE REVIEWED -MOTION TO APPROVE ISSUE #3 STAFF RECOMMENDATION -Staff has received requests to allow sky- lights and bay windows whose glazing has a more horizontal aspect to it, into Below Grade areas. Staff has rejected such windows since it creates areas which are no longer Below Grade, but rather below glass. Such windows bring attention to the Below Grade areas and have the potential to create unintended visual impacts including light emission. Staff believes this prohibition is especially important if Below Grade areas continue to be allowed outside the footprint of the structure above. Ms. Schaffner explains Issue #3 to the boards as outlined in the staff memo. Discussion developed among staff and both board members. Commissioner Richards asked if there would be room to say that you could have a sky-light if it were immediately adjacent to the house so that it would add a little bit more of a window well effect. She understands not wanting to have the sky- light or glazing to be 20 feet out to the middle of the lawn, but again, if it's something where you could say sky-lights could be allowed if immediately adjacent to the house and not to extend more than 2 and '/2 feet out, or something like that. She said that she thinks it could very well be hidden behind shrubbery or have the appearance of being part of the house. She said that perhaps it would make that space more desirable for people to use some of their FAR there instead of above grade as well. Ms. Schaffner said yes, staff could like at that, but then they would have to also amend other parts of the Below Grade definition which would limit the size of windows and window wells in Below Grade spaces. So, right now, they are limiting the glazing to 8% natural light and window wells cannot exceed the minimum required for egress which is 3 feet out. There are other limitations, she said, which they could certainly look at amending if the board is favorable to this. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 7 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 Commissioner Hatfield said that he thought that asky-light could be a window well limited to the 3 feet. Is there a 3 feet maximum and is it intrusive? Ms. Schaffner responded that if you have a Below Grade space and depending on what uses you have in that space, you are required to have egress and you do have to have a window and that will provide a well out into the yard or wherever. P&Z RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOCC -Commissioner Mallory moved to recommend to the BOCC that they approve staff's recommendation. Commissioner Augello seconded the motion. Motion passed 4 to 0. BOCC MOTION -Commissioner Hatfield said that he sees this as totally a design issue and therefore moved to support the P&Z recommendation. Commissioner Kay-Clapper seconded the motion. Motion passed 5 to 0. ISSUE #4 - A REQUEST HAS BEEN MADE BY THE ARCHITECTURAL FIRM, CHARLES CUNNIFFE ARCHITECTS, FOR STAFF TO REVIEW THE MERITS OF A "VERTICAL CRAWL SPACE" WHICH THEY DEFINE AS: "AN ENCLOSED, NON-HABITABLE AREA LOCATED BETWEEN THE EXTERIOR OF A FOUNDATION WALL AND THE SURFACE OF THE FINISHED GRADE OF A VERTICAL OR NEARLY VERTICAL SLOPE, WHICH SLOPE IS RETAINED BY AN ENGINEERED SYSTEM WHICH REQUIRES A SEPARATION BETWEEN THE FOUNDATION WALL AND THE SURFACE OF THE FINISHED GRADE OF THE SLOPE. VERTICAL CRAWL SPACES ARE EXEMPT FROM FLOOR AREA CALCULATIONS, PROVIDED THAT THE HORIZONTAL DIMENSIONS AT THE LOWEST LEVEL (OR AT ITS BASE) DOES NOT EXCEED 5'6" -MOTION TO TABLE ISSUE #4 TO A DATE NOT YET DETERMINED TO ALLOW STAFF AND THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN EXPRESSED TONIGHT AND BRING IT BACK TO P&Z FOR RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOCC) STAFF RECOMMENDATION - A drawing provided in the packet illustrates this issue where a separation is required between the exterior of the foundation wall and the excavated and retained slope behind it. These areas are enclosed with a roof from the slope to the foundation wall, and walls adjoining the foundation wall to the slope. Staff appreciates that these areas are located outside of the exterior walls of the residence, and that it allows an area tailer than 5'6" in height for mechanical equipment. However, staff believes that such areas should not be exempt without limitation. Therefore, they suggest the following additions to the above definition: • The vertical crawlspace remain unfinished, including no finished floor BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 8 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 • Access to the area be limited The systems and uses allowed within the area be restricted This type of crawl space shall be allowed ONLY when no other horizontal crawl space exists and/or is proposed. (This restriction was originally suggested by the author of the definition) Questions for staff were asked by both boards Charles Cunniffe clarifies that the only time this occurs is when you have a hill, for instance, that has been engineered and the hill has to have flex to it. So, it is not allowed to be connected to the wall of the house. It's a necessary evil, he said, to have the house separate from the hill. He doesn't think you would do this on purpose. He can only think of 3 instances where this occurred. Commissioner Mallory said that staff has said the area shall remain unfinished, including the floor but it doesn't exclude a roof. So there will be walls but it must contain non-spark producing mechanical. What's non-spark producing besides plumbing? Ms. Schaffner responded by saying what spark producing items there are rather than non-spark producing items. These would include, for instance, things like a boiler or things that have flames. DIRECTION TO STAFF -Acting Chair Krabacher had a couple of clarifications for staff that were found on page 6 of the staff memo. Under (d) Crawl Spaces, 2) the second sentence should add the words six inches" (5' 6") in height after the words five feet. Also under (d) Crawl Spaces, under the words Vertical crawl spaces shall be exempt from floor area calculations, provided they comply with the following: 1) No horizontal crawl space exists or is proposed for the house. Acting Chair Krabacher said that he doesn't know why we would want to have that limitation in there. He would like this sentence deleted. DIRECTION TO STAFF -Commissioner Richards said that when this comes back to the board for second reading she would like to see what potential size this could actually be. We are talking about people's choice of a lot and the choice of a type of home they're going to put on a lot. If this takes a 15,000 square foot home and the length of that home is now going to have this element on it, is it going to end up kind of being more like 16,500 or 17,000 if you were counting it. To build on that slope, she asked if it would be reasonable if it exceeds a certain size for that retention wall that some of it starts to count against the FAR. Further discussion ensued on this issue with some discussion focusing on people taking advantage of this in an unfair way. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 9 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 There was a suggestion for a maximum number or a maximum percentage being exempt from square footage to help stop the intent to violate the use of it. Commissioner Mallory said that she thinks this needs more work. She would like to see the language and the use of it refined. Commissioner Hatfield said that in good faith you design a home, in good faith the contractor builds the home. Two months later, he continued, the homeowner goes in there and has somebody with a concrete saw to make a big door opening and you have a lot of extra storage. He would allow the space, but he wouldn't allow the use, only because of the need for the engineered wall. And, if you have to cover it, that's totally fine. And, if you want a patio, that's ok. But, he doesn't see why we're bothering with this. He said that he thinks there's so much room for abuse here. CLARIFICATION OF CODE LANGUAGE - Ms. Schaffner wanted to make a clarification. She said that in this Code language it says a required separation between the engineered wall and the foundation wall. She said that she thinks what it should say is instead of foundation wall it should say exterior wall of the house. As the hour was 6:00 PM and P&Z had their regular meeting to convene, discussion turned to approving or continuing this issue. P&Z RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOCC -Acting Chair Krabacher moved to table this (Issue #4-crawl space) to a date not yet determined to allow staff and the applicant to address some of the concerns that have been expressed tonight and bring it back (to P&Z for recommendation to the BOCC). Commissioner Mallory seconded the motion. Discussion developed on the other two items on tonight's agenda. They are (1) River & Stream Corridors & Wetlands and (2) Restoration, Repair, Reconstruction, Replacement, Remodel & Additions to Legal Non-Conforming Structures. They are discussion items only. Lance Clarke informed the boards that he thinks the item before P&Z tonight should go rather quickly. If the boards would like to wait, the meeting could reconvene after that or the boards could meet on another date. This was discussed by both boards as there were people present who had been waiting for these items to be discussed and both boards wanted to be fair to them. BOCC Chairman Owsley apologized to the audience members who had been waiting for the rest of today's agenda. But, he added, the other two items BOARD OP COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 10 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 deserve a lengthy discussion with people who are fresh at the table. He thinks there could probably be a three hour discussion on those two items. Ellen Sassano discussed future possible dates for the additional two items on today's agenda. Chairman Owsley said that the need is immediate for these discussions. Staff will check with County Manager Hilary Fletcher on possible meeting dates and times. BOCC MOTION -Commissioner Richards moved to approve Issues Numbered 1, 2 and 3, as amended and staff directed EXCEPT FOR Issue Number 4, Vertical Crawl Space. Commissioner Farris seconded the motion. ADJOURNMENT: Commissioner Farris moved to adjourn the joint special meeting at 6:12 PM. Commissioner Richards seconded the motion. Motion passed 5 to 0. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 11 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007 Respectfully submitted, rJ /'~ t f ~' / ,~ nde R. Dean ~` Cl~rk to the Board~f ~ ~.. Commissioners ,~,r,.~ J,k~anette Jones Clerk to the Board f County Commissioners l~'~~y~.".. ~ /L~' Michael M. Owsley Chairman of the Board of County Commissioners moose rabacher Acting Chairman, Planning and Zoning Commission g\bocc\minutes\2007\12112007(2) BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 12 SPECIAL JT MEETING DECEMBER 11, 2007